Meetings 11 May 2008

From 4freedom

[13:00] Catharina Jacobus: oh well meeting time
[13:00] Toga Yorkshire: Any seating for today?
[13:00] Catharina Jacobus: shall we sit down?
[13:01] Catharina Jacobus: or try to sit down
[13:01] Samira Kirax: aha...Cath is changing place ;-)...Cath!
[13:01] Catharina Jacobus: yes for a change?
[13:01] You: somebody make up my mind..lol
[13:01] Sour Wozniak: sit there now
[13:01] Sour Wozniak: there i made it up for you
[13:02] You: YIFFY! ^.^
[13:02] Sour Wozniak: lol
[13:02] Catharina Jacobus: at least we sit on free seats here :-)
[13:02] Morgaine Price is Online
[13:02] Samira Kirax: there not over there?
[13:02] Catharina Jacobus: Will someone please log? I will do it too but I have been crashing all day?
[13:02] Sour Wozniak: YIFFY! ^.^
[13:03] Sour Wozniak: YIFFY! ^.^
[13:03] Toga Yorkshire: I became an associate member of FSF after the last meeting. I think I was only member #6567
[13:03] Sour Wozniak: lol
[13:03] Toga Yorkshire: Seems real low.
[13:03] Catharina Jacobus: oh that is nice!
[13:03] Catharina Jacobus: I am too, not sure about the number though
[13:03] Sour Wozniak: ive started the LUUY
[13:03] Sour Wozniak: LUU*
[13:04] Toga Yorkshire: I mentioned SL and our activity here, But no reply. :-(
[13:04] Samira Kirax: where's Grunt?
[13:04] You: i am not sure if i did it correctly, but i turned on my chat logging
[13:04] Sour Wozniak: he will be back tomorrow
[13:04] Catharina Jacobus: Yes Grunt is busy
[13:04] Catharina Jacobus: ok, agenda..
[13:05] Toga Yorkshire: Petition signer list?
[13:05] Catharina Jacobus: About the petition. I talked about it with Ronnie but it is quite difficult to create a petition in world with a permanent list
[13:05] Catharina Jacobus: And he has little time too
[13:05] Catharina Jacobus: So for now at least I put the petition online
[13:05] Catharina Jacobus: Did you see?
[13:05] Sour Wozniak: the bbc want to bann sl
[13:06] Toga Yorkshire: How about a non-SL place for holding the petition, such as rhe wiki?
[13:06] Sour Wozniak: hi otaku
[13:06] Catharina Jacobus: That is what I did Toga, but not on the wiki
[13:06] Samira Kirax: hi
[13:06] Catharina Jacobus: The link is on the agenda
[13:06] Catharina Jacobus: Hi Otaku
[13:06] You: Hi Otaku
[13:06] Toga Yorkshire: Hi ot
[13:06] Otaku Thor: hi all
[13:07] Catharina Jacobus: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/secondlife-4freedom/
[13:07] Toga Yorkshire: Cath, would the wiki be a good place for the signatures?
[13:07] Samira Kirax: so online is good so far...but we should bring it of course inworld as well
[13:07] Catharina Jacobus: Yes well we need a good scripter for that
[13:08] You: the ipetition site is neutral 3rd party. I think that was a good idea
[13:08] Catharina Jacobus: especially when we want to spread it over more islands
[13:08] Toga Yorkshire: OK, I was just looking at it, seem fine to me.
[13:09] Samira Kirax: I found some places till now...mostly with "educational" background where they did not return my "testobjects" till now
[13:09] Catharina Jacobus: the problem Samira is to keep one list of people who signed
[13:09] Toga Yorkshire: Should the name field be your SL names?
[13:09] Catharina Jacobus: if we put it on several places, it keeps creating new lists and that is not what we want
[13:10] Catharina Jacobus: Yes Second Life name I think, maybe I should add that
[13:10] You: i have been member on ipetition for some time. they have the resources in place already.
[13:10] Samira Kirax: so could we do sth with a Group, just everyone signed is member & like that having list, just an idea?
[13:10] Sour Wozniak: YIFFY! ^.^
[13:11] Catharina Jacobus: Sorry Sam I do not understand what you mean
[13:11] Samira Kirax: lets call it: pedition signer group & you join if you sign...don't know if this could be a way
[13:11] Catharina Jacobus: oh you mean start a new group for it?
[13:11] You: i think Sam mean creat a petition group
[13:12] Catharina Jacobus: Yes that is an option
[13:12] Samira Kirax: like that we may also inform signers about how many signed so far & what is the actuality on Linden side?
[13:13] Morgaine Price is Offline
[13:13] Catharina Jacobus: Yes, sounds like a good idea
[13:13] You: the main downside i see to that is ther ewould need to be a separate group for any future petitions
[13:13] Toga Yorkshire: Keeping the list within SL seems good. That way members only sign it.
[13:13] You: but it is an option
[13:14] Catharina Jacobus: Yes I see that problem too Wolf, I already reached my maximum numbers of groups
[13:14] Samira Kirax: if we onece have some good scripters on board there will be easier way...hmm
[13:14] You: is there a max number on group membership?
[13:15] Catharina Jacobus: maybe Grunt can do the script
[13:15] Samira Kirax: yep
[13:15] Catharina Jacobus: there is a max on the groups you can join
[13:15] Toga Yorkshire: May petion SL for a petition function? ;-P
[13:15] Catharina Jacobus: 20 or so I think
[13:15] Catharina Jacobus: haha Toga
[13:15] Toga Yorkshire: It might work.
[13:15] You: 25 group membership..i was curious on a max for actaul group. members
[13:15] Catharina Jacobus: no, there is no max on that I think
[13:16] You: k..if so, thatwould limit the number of "signatures"
[13:16] Samira Kirax: lets start petition here & we'll see, ok?
[13:17] Morgaine Price is Online
[13:17] Catharina Jacobus is Offline
[13:18] Samira Kirax: hmm...not a right meeting if Cath is not crashing :-)
[13:18] You: lol.
[13:19] Toga Yorkshire: She can contact me on the #4Freedom IRC if she has. to.
[13:19] Samira Kirax: I think as I said...lets start pedition with that box. Ronnie made, first just on ama gi?
[13:19] You: i completely forgot to log onto IRC today
[13:20] Samira Kirax: by the way Wolf...with Opera I finally could connect. but did not find 4freedom on freenode?
[13:20] Toga Yorkshire: Sam, make a meeting place there for co-ordination.
[13:20] You: since Cath has already place the petition online at ipetition,. maybe these are options which should be invested for future activities?
[13:21] You: *investigated
[13:21] Catharina Jacobus is Online
[13:21] Toga Yorkshire: WB Cath
[13:21] You: wb Cath
[13:22] Catharina Jacobus: hehe
[13:22] Catharina Jacobus: sorry as I said... keep crashing today
[13:22] Catharina Jacobus: So I hope someone can log..
[13:22] Toga Yorkshire: Cath, is it your OS or SL?
[13:23] Catharina Jacobus: SL
[13:23] You: SL is having issues today
[13:23] Catharina Jacobus: No, my laptop gets overheated by it
[13:23] Catharina Jacobus: and it is getting worse
[13:23] Toga Yorkshire: I'm running beta right now on 64bit Debian, just. lag is a problem.
[13:24] Otaku Thor: same as I lagg bad today
[13:24] Toga Yorkshire: Back to petition?
[13:24] You: anyway..abck to subject at hand
[13:24] Catharina Jacobus: ok, lets ask grunt if he can do a script
[13:24] Catharina Jacobus: if not, we can setup a group for it
[13:24] Catharina Jacobus: and for the moment people can sign it online
[13:24] Toga Yorkshire: Being aware of the group limits.
[13:25] Catharina Jacobus: ok by all?
[13:25] Toga Yorkshire: OK
[13:25] Samira Kirax: ok
[13:25] You: here is my concern: we have box set up in SL, we have one copy. online @ ipetition. If we can't even decide where people are supposed to. sign up, we're not likely to be taken seriously by LL
[13:25] Catharina Jacobus: ok the FSF
[13:26] Toga Yorkshire: Sign online at -. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/secondlife-4freedom/ ?
[13:26] Catharina Jacobus: hmmm might be right
[13:26] Catharina Jacobus: in that case, i prefer the online petition. because that is what we can do now
[13:27] Catharina Jacobus: and also because I think we can use our time. more efficient on other stuff here then
[13:27] Toga Yorkshire: You need to define where online.
[13:27] You: that, plus, as I mentioned, the online is neutral 3rd party.. no chance of being called into question about signatures
[13:27] Catharina Jacobus: Ronnie told me it is quite difficult and time. consuming
[13:27] Samira Kirax: guy & girls...lets start...if we need 3 months to set. a pedition we're as well not taken serious I guess
[13:28] Catharina Jacobus: so, will we go with that then?
[13:28] You: that would be my vote
[13:29] Catharina Jacobus: all we need to do then is create something with. a link to the petition and put it everywhere we can
[13:29] Toga Yorkshire: I alnog for the ride. I'll go with anything.
[13:29] Samira Kirax: yep, as I said
[13:29] Catharina Jacobus: ok next the FSF
[13:30] Catharina Jacobus: I have updated them on what we have been doing. so far and also asked them to think about buying an island
[13:30] Samira Kirax: &...answer so far?
[13:30] Catharina Jacobus: No, but I only did that today
[13:31] You: So, the group will be hosting a FSF area on our island in. addition to one they might get?
[13:31] Catharina Jacobus: I have explained about the building, the theme. park and so on so let´s see what they come up with
[13:32] Catharina Jacobus: We are hosting them now here, but if they buy an. island we will move there
[13:32] You: ah..ok..gotcha
[13:32] Catharina Jacobus: If not, Trade will buy an island and we will. move there
[13:32] Greenie Frog is Online
[13:33] Samira Kirax: so...Trade wants to wait till prices are coming down,. yes?
[13:33] Catharina Jacobus: the prices came down last week
[13:33] You: k..i guess we are just in a "wait and see" situation for now?
[13:33] Catharina Jacobus: But the FSF can get an island for about half the. costs
[13:33] Catharina Jacobus: because they are non profit
[13:34] Catharina Jacobus: So I explained that to them
[13:34] You: works for me either way.
[13:34] Toga Yorkshire: Is there a way to get someone from FSF to come to. theses meetings?
[13:34] Samira Kirax: ok...but than we'll still stay somehow with Trade or. have neighbour island?
[13:35] Samira Kirax: Cath, did FSF contact mention anyone inworld?
[13:35] Catharina Jacobus: No, they have no people in world I think yet
[13:35] Catharina Jacobus: I am in contact with John Sullivan, general. manager or so
[13:35] Toga Yorkshire: That would be the most helpful I think.
[13:36] You decline club Shiraz, Cicero (221, 50, 254) from A group member. named Honey Potez.
[13:36] Samira Kirax: cause like I wrote on wiki, FSF-Europe president. mentioned that they did not care too much as client was not free long time
[13:36] Catharina Jacobus: Well they asked me last time if we could set up. a plan and they would reply on it and think with us
[13:36] Marisa Carr is Online
[13:36] Toga Yorkshire: wb Sour
[13:36] Catharina Jacobus: So I did that and I think they can decide for. themselves if they want to participate in meetings or not
[13:36] Sour Wozniak: sry bout that
[13:37] Sour Wozniak: sumthin came up
[13:37] Catharina Jacobus: wb Sour
[13:37] You: so really what we need right now is a firm game plan to. present to them?
[13:37] Toga Yorkshire: Well they can be a non-paying if the money is an. issue.
[13:37] Catharina Jacobus: I think the FSF is quite a small organization. and people are all quite busy so they are happy we do this for them
[13:38] Catharina Jacobus: I also suggested that we can cover the monthly. costs probably by renting out space
[13:38] Marisa Carr is Offline
[13:38] Catharina Jacobus: not immediately but over time
[13:38] Sour Wozniak: i would be willing to rent out a space
[13:38] Catharina Jacobus: It will be half tier, about $ 176 a month
[13:39] Sour Wozniak: i need a 512 plot
[13:39] Sour Wozniak: lol
[13:39] Samira Kirax: hmm...president of FSFE Georg Greve invited me to. meeting in Zurich, his office is also there & he is founder of European. Sister-organisation
[13:39] Catharina Jacobus: fine Sour, you can make a reservation now
[13:39] Sour Wozniak: cool
[13:39] Catharina Jacobus: great Sam
[13:39] Samira Kirax: I guess till 8th of June we could have a good. "action-map"
[13:40] Samira Kirax: & I could give them a look with my account...
[13:40] Catharina Jacobus: Yes, that is a great idea
[13:40] Samira Kirax: as Cath said is small & they are glad to have. resource in any way
[13:40] You: I agree. I think being able to present a definite plan would. be great
[13:41] Samira Kirax: but I don't want to step in with: buy island...I want. to show them possibility first :-)
[13:42] Toga Yorkshire: Sound like plenty of 'to-do's. Should we move on?
[13:42] Catharina Jacobus: Yes, move on..
[13:43] Toga Yorkshire: Rentals
[13:43] Catharina Jacobus: Well yes not so much to say on that but I tried. to make a better looking rental system
[13:43] Catharina Jacobus: still not happy with it, but will keep working. on it
[13:44] Catharina Jacobus: and is someone wants to improve it, feel welcome
[13:44] Samira Kirax: unfortunately on the idea pajust plz put me ideas on. wiki & not complaint against some funny MS-bashing :-/
[13:44] Samira Kirax: grr
[13:45] You: I can afford a smaller parcel, but cannot go with the $100+. per month. Will that still be available?
[13:45] Samira Kirax: some words missing up but anyway...put ideas on wiki. about theme park :-)
[13:45] Toga Yorkshire: About what price/rental for 512m?
[13:45] Sour Wozniak: i only have like $6usd for my slbudget
[13:45] Sour Wozniak: i cant really offord much
[13:45] Catharina Jacobus: parcels are available from $ 3,50 a month I. think
[13:45] Sour Wozniak: really
[13:45] Toga Yorkshire: Hi Grey
[13:45] Sour Wozniak: are those the 512s
[13:46] GreyGeek Kirax: Hi
[13:46] Catharina Jacobus: for $ 6,50 you get 1024 m2
[13:46] Catharina Jacobus: Hi Grey Geek
[13:46] GreyGeek Kirax: Hello
[13:46] You: i was planning around $10USD per month, so that would work
[13:46] Sour Wozniak: but for 3.50 i get 512
[13:46] Catharina Jacobus: and some setup costs..
[13:46] Catharina Jacobus: yes
[13:46] Sour Wozniak: cool
[13:46] Toga Yorkshire: Is that $ or SL $ ?
[13:46] Catharina Jacobus: $ 3,50
[13:47] Catharina Jacobus: or $ 3,75 (not sure)
[13:47] Toga Yorkshire: Close enough.
[13:47] Sour Wozniak: ok
[13:47] Sour Wozniak: i will get a 512
[13:47] Catharina Jacobus: great Sour
[13:48] Toga Yorkshire: COuld users share a parcel?
[13:48] Catharina Jacobus: yes sure
[13:48] Sour Wozniak: 3.50 is well within my budget
[13:48] You: once i move to my new hosting server, I'll be in also
[13:48] Sour Wozniak: but how much is startup
[13:49] Catharina Jacobus: I think it is $ 15,-- for 512 and $ 25,-- for. 1024
[13:49] Sour Wozniak: damn
[13:49] Sour Wozniak: i only have 2,319 L
[13:49] Catharina Jacobus: The setup costs are meant for the initial costs. of an island
[13:49] Sour Wozniak: ya
[13:49] Sour Wozniak: i will have to see if i can get that
[13:50] Catharina Jacobus: Would not be needed if the FSF would buy an. island
[13:50] You: that's only 2 cases of beer..i can sacrifce that..lol
[13:51] Samira Kirax: what about that "first land" one user can buy for. special conditions?
[13:51] Toga Yorkshire: Moving on. Actions to take after first meeting:
[13:51] Marisa Carr is Online
[13:51] Catharina Jacobus: Anyway hmmm actually I think we can lower the. setup costs now, because island prices dropped
[13:51] Sour Wozniak: well i hope so
[13:51] Catharina Jacobus: But would have to make a new calculation on that
[13:51] Catharina Jacobus: Will do
[13:51] Catharina Jacobus: ok, what is next?
[13:51] Sour Wozniak: i would really like to do this but 15$ is a lot for. me
[13:52] Catharina Jacobus: I dare not to open my browser anymore
[13:52] Toga Yorkshire: Rent a new island and donate a quarter to 4Freedom
[13:52] Sour Wozniak: ive opend skype pidgin and firefox
[13:52] Catharina Jacobus: so what is next on the agenda?
[13:52] Sour Wozniak: on a P4
[13:52] Sour Wozniak: lol
[13:52] Toga Yorkshire: Setup a convenant for the island
[13:52] Catharina Jacobus: that is not on the agenda :-)
[13:52] Marisa Carr is Offline
[13:52] Toga Yorkshire: Invite third parties to the new space:
[13:53] Sour Wozniak: ^.^
[13:53] Sour Wozniak: YIFFY! ^.^
[13:53] Toga Yorkshire: It's all in the actions section.
[13:53] Sour Wozniak: YIFFY! ^.^
[13:53] Sour Wozniak: ha
[13:53] Catharina Jacobus: ok, yes if we get a new island we will setup a. new convenant of cours
[13:53] Toga Yorkshire: Sorry I was wotking from the top not the bottom of. the list
[13:53] Catharina Jacobus: But that is not so difficult because we can use. existing ones
[13:54] Catharina Jacobus: :-)
[13:54] Toga Yorkshire: From the botton. We need to check our plots for. scripts or prims (we had some nasty visits lately)
[13:55] Catharina Jacobus: Well one thing about third pyes, that is mainly. meant for me and Grunt
[13:55] Catharina Jacobus: and Samira and Trade I think
[13:56] Samira Kirax: hmm on FSF land nothing so far as I noticed
[13:56] Catharina Jacobus: ok
[13:56] Catharina Jacobus: I noticed that there is also a group called Gnu. scripters in Second Life
[13:56] Catharina Jacobus: it is quite big and maybe we should contact them. for help
[13:57] You: so do we need a work group for prim monitoring?
[13:57] Catharina Jacobus: and a group called Gnu Wave Architects
[13:57] Catharina Jacobus: hmmm no, we need more scripters and builders..
[13:58] Samira Kirax: yep...that for I was asking last week if someone has. contact or connection to group built all the "Reezable" couse they are geat. scripters
[13:58] You: i'm not a builder, but it seems that prim counts have been an. issue at every meeting
[13:59] Catharina Jacobus: Samira, maybe you could contact these groups as. our building and scripter coordinator?
[13:59] Toga Yorkshire: I donate to Creative Commons and EFF besides FSF.. Any thoughts abouts those orginizations being here too?
[13:59] Catharina Jacobus: I have tried to contact CC some times about what. we are doing, but never got a reply
[14:00] Catharina Jacobus: They have their own islands in SL
[14:00] Samira Kirax: look I just don't feel realy ready with my onw. scripting skills...if you contact some ppl inwold you better know very well. the subject :-/?
[14:01] Marisa Carr is Online
[14:01] Toga Yorkshire: I'll chack them out to see whats going on with. them.
[14:01] Toga Yorkshire: Check
[14:01] Catharina Jacobus: Well I think not Samira, I think we could call. them for help. If they know we work with the FSF they might be interested
[14:02] You: beforewe start expanding, maybe we should get our base wit. hthe FSF taken care of. Otherwise we'll be running in 50 different. directions at once
[14:02] Catharina Jacobus: I did not mean expanding really but see if we. can get some more builders and scripters interested in what we do
[14:02] Samira Kirax: we can try...but is the same like for FSFE...I'd like. to have a bette map...I have idea about project organisation & I want to do. things just well...exact
[14:03] GreyGeek Kirax: Pardon me for interrupting, but this is the best. presence of Linux in SL and I'd like to help $$
[14:03] Toga Yorkshire: Grey have a seat
[14:03] You: welcome Grey
[14:03] Otaku Thor: welcome Grey
[14:03] Catharina Jacobus: Well that is nice to hear Grey. Thanks!
[14:04] Toga Yorkshire: haha
[14:04] GreyGeek Kirax: lol
[14:04] Otaku Thor: beta client I guess
[14:04] Marisa Carr is Offline
[14:04] Catharina Jacobus: Just how much money would you like to spent on. us? :-)
[14:05] GreyGeek Kirax: Never "sit" through a transpant wall lol
[14:05] Samira Kirax: you've been around other sundays...help's always. welcome :-)
[14:06] GreyGeek Kirax: First, I joined SL for a year and I bought 512 m2. of land that just being wasted on a "house"
[14:06] GreyGeek Kirax: There has to be some way I can donate that land or,. just abandon it and pitch in on some group land?
[14:06] You decline club Shiraz, Cicero (221, 50, 254) from A group member. named Honey Potez.
[14:07] Catharina Jacobus: Yes I think there is.. ask Trade for that
[14:07] Catharina Jacobus: Think he knows about it
[14:08] Catharina Jacobus: I think you can deed it to our group
[14:08] You: Before we digress to much before end of meeting: our "todo" so. far seems to be a plan to present to FSF, contact a few other SL groups,. gettingthe petition link out to the public and recalculating land costs?
[14:08] GreyGeek Kirax: I'm a programmer by profession but will be retiring. in 33 days. I was casting about for something else I can work on.
[14:08] Catharina Jacobus: Wow that is nice because then you will have lots. of time :-)
[14:08] GreyGeek Kirax: I will deed it to the group, How would that help if. it is on some other island?
[14:08] Toga Yorkshire: Plenty to be done here.
[14:08] Samira Kirax: sounds great!
[14:09] Catharina Jacobus: That is what I do not know exactly Grey, but I. think Trade will know
[14:09] Samira Kirax: we need urgent good programmer ;-)
[14:09] Catharina Jacobus: yes
[14:09] GreyGeek Kirax: I didn't say I was good ;-)
[14:09] You: lol
[14:09] Toga Yorkshire: hehe
[14:10] Catharina Jacobus: Well at least you managed to stay a programmer. until retirement
[14:10] Samira Kirax: we need wisdom & brain as well *lol*
[14:10] GreyGeek Kirax: Well, I've been hacking code for nearly 40 years
[14:10] Catharina Jacobus: ok, i would like to close official part of. meeting now unless there is something urgent