Meeting 20 april 2008

From 4freedom

4Freedom meeting of the 20th of april in the year of our Lord 2008

[13:01] Grunt Ultsch: Not too busy, is it?
[13:01] Catharina Jacobus: Not at all
[13:02] Trade Flow: no, some people were here erlier
[13:02] You decline The 4 Towers, ama gi (13, 226, 21) from A group member named Catharina Jacobus.
[13:02] Catharina Jacobus: ow who were?
[13:02] Trade Flow: sec
[13:02] Catharina Jacobus: Did I set wrong time on the note?
[13:03] Trade Flow: fish and zitronenkuchen
[13:03] Trade Flow: good thing names have length limit
[13:03] You decline The 4 Towers, ama gi (13, 226, 21) from A group member named Catharina Jacobus.
[13:03] Catharina Jacobus: haha
[13:03] Grunt Ultsch: you gave the right time
[13:03] You decline The 4 Towers, ama gi (13, 226, 21) from A group member named Catharina Jacobus.
[13:03] Trade Flow: yes she did
[13:04] Grunt Ultsch: It doesnt have anything to do with the space station, does it?
[13:04] Fish Kungfu: howdy everyone
[13:04] Catharina Jacobus: Hi fish
[13:04] Fish Kungfu: :-)
[13:05] Grunt Ultsch: hello fish
[13:05] Samira Kirax: but no agenda...hmm some people told me CU sunday..hmm that Rover is missing maybe..others I don't know
[13:05] Samira Kirax: Hi Fish
[13:05] Fish Kungfu: hi hi :-)
[13:05] Catharina Jacobus: No sorry I did not make an agenda
[13:05] Trade Flow: hi fish
[13:05] Catharina Jacobus: Alex has still no internet I am afraid
[13:06] Trade Flow: if we use UTC then will never have a mistake :-)
[13:06] Fish Kungfu: hehe
[13:06] Catharina Jacobus: Toga is also missing of the regulars
[13:06] Samira Kirax: Grunt plz your chick...tke control!
[13:06] Fish Kungfu: hi chicken
[13:06] Trade Flow: why is the chicken rubbing my leg?
[13:06] Grunt Ultsch: it's gone
[13:06] Catharina Jacobus: Grunt get control
[13:06] Fish Kungfu: lol
[13:06] Catharina Jacobus: oh good
[13:06] Trade Flow: left an egg
[13:07] Catharina Jacobus: hihi
[13:07] Catharina Jacobus: Well anyway, let´s just start..
[13:07] Catharina Jacobus: About the space station.
[13:07] Trade Flow: ok
[13:07] Sour Wozniak: sorry im late
[13:07] Samira Kirax: hi Sour
[13:07] Sour Wozniak: hi
[13:08] Trade Flow: hi Sour
[13:08] Grunt Ultsch: You didn't miss much sour
[13:08] Catharina Jacobus: In the beginning of the week I got a bit stressed by all the non free items here and the size of the space station
[13:08] Grunt Ultsch: Watch it, Sour, I already kicked a chicken out
[13:08] Catharina Jacobus: So I said something to Rover about that, maybe not too tactical and he took the space centre down I think
[13:08] Sour Wozniak: >:(
[13:08] Trade Flow: ok
[13:09] Sour Wozniak: trade!!! i finally get to meet you
[13:09] Trade Flow: :-)
[13:09] Catharina Jacobus: Haha welcome Sour
[13:09] Grunt Ultsch: Autographs after the meeting
[13:09] Trade Flow: been busy lately
[13:09] Catharina Jacobus: meet our famous Trade
[13:09] Sour Wozniak: ya
[13:09] Sour Wozniak: you are famous
[13:09] Trade Flow: famous? no I am not
[13:09] Sour Wozniak: trade i need to talk to you after the meeting
[13:10] Catharina Jacobus: you hear it..
[13:10] Samira Kirax: it was Rover & my problem that we could not change acsess of Alexies stuff
[13:10] Trade Flow: ok SOur
[13:10] Catharina Jacobus: ok Samira
[13:10] Trade Flow: I think all items have to be open
[13:11] Grunt Ultsch: With several builders it's better to use a group owner account
[13:11] Catharina Jacobus: Well Rover and me had contact later again over it and he told me that they will rebuild it but then smaller
[13:11] Sour Wozniak: i agree
[13:11] Sour Wozniak: everything here should be copyable
[13:11] Trade Flow: its ok during building to be slightly closed but once its deemed finished then should be open
[13:11] Sour Wozniak: OPEN
[13:11] Catharina Jacobus: He said maybe this weekend, but appearantly that did not work out
[13:11] Samira Kirax: of course...but the station was still under construction...& Alexies said he will make things free as soon as it's "finished" like for example the elevator or most of left part of the building
[13:12] Grunt Ultsch: We also must decide how many prims the space station may use
[13:12] Catharina Jacobus: Yes it should and I think everyon knows this
[13:12] Samira Kirax: & like you know Alexies is not online
[13:12] Catharina Jacobus: And I do not want to run around like a police woman all the time
[13:12] Trade Flow: the problem is that it might not easy to set everything as needed "after" it is built
[13:12] Samira Kirax: so just for next time...have a little patience :-)
[13:12] Trade Flow: e.g. scripts and textures
[13:13] Sour Wozniak: if you use a closed texture you cant make you object open so that can cause problems
[13:13] Catharina Jacobus: I can not really see a reason why not complete buildings should be non-free
[13:13] Catharina Jacobus: But maybe there is something I oversee
[13:13] Trade Flow: neither do I
[13:13] Catharina Jacobus: If someone else wants to take a non free objects, let him have fun with it
[13:14] Samira Kirax: & that lead to subject "petition"...couse if one is building a lot...always has to set permission!
[13:14] Trade Flow: yes
[13:14] Grunt Ultsch: I made a page on the wiki about how to build free objects, but I don't think many ppl read it
[13:14] Catharina Jacobus: Yes it is something that we have to be aware off all the time as long as it is like it is now
[13:15] Sour Wozniak: SEEE i was jsut gonna copy sumthin over there and is wont let me....ppl dont know what open means
[13:16] Fish Kungfu: hehe
[13:16] Sour Wozniak: =)
[13:16] Grunt Ultsch: Don't mention it, sour...
[13:16] Sour Wozniak: i have an announcement to make
[13:16] Catharina Jacobus: They know, but they forget to set permissions or they say it is unfinished. That is why I think it is better to make unfinished stuff open too
[13:17] Sour Wozniak: im preagneant
[13:17] Catharina Jacobus: Ok, go for it Sour
[13:17] Catharina Jacobus: huh?
[13:17] Sour Wozniak: just kidding
[13:17] Sour Wozniak: =)
[13:17] Fish Kungfu: Congrats!
[13:17] Catharina Jacobus: pfffft
[13:18] Catharina Jacobus: Ok what about the petition? Do we all agree on the text as it is now?
[13:18] Sour Wozniak: yes
[13:18] Grunt Ultsch: I havent read it lately
[13:18] Catharina Jacobus: I do
[13:18] Fish Kungfu: Where can I get a copy?
[13:18] Grunt Ultsch: Has the 'creator' stuff been deleted yet?
[13:19] Samira Kirax: yep & I read Togas coment on Grunt & I must agree with part that "creator" should not be used & so to me new text is fine
[13:19] Sour Wozniak: OPEN SOURCEAMY
[13:20] Catharina Jacobus: Ok so I think we got to call it final then
[13:20] Catharina Jacobus: Now all we need is signers..
[13:20] Grunt Ultsch: But the creator stuff is still in there
[13:20] Samira Kirax: no?
[13:20] Grunt Ultsch: I just checked it
[13:21] Sour Wozniak: AaHELP
[13:21] Sour Wozniak: THE CHICKEN IS IN THE RING OF CHAIRS
[13:21] Sour Wozniak: AHHHH
[13:21] AmP Schnyder: hi there
[13:21] Fish Kungfu: howdy AmP
[13:21] Grunt Ultsch: it's not a chicken, it's a cock
[13:21] Sour Wozniak: LOL
[13:21] Fish Kungfu: and it lays eggs?! yikes
[13:21] AmP Schnyder: ubuntu x64 an SL is sooo broke
[13:22] AmP Schnyder: means SL is broken :)
[13:22] Catharina Jacobus: Hi AmP, sorry to hear that
[13:22] Grunt Ultsch: I wouldn't eat an egg of this one
[13:22] Fish Kungfu: lol Trade they like ou
[13:22] AmP Schnyder: catharina: yea i tried do fix the "arch" problem
[13:22] Sour Wozniak: the chicken is not open
[13:22] AmP Schnyder: but still VERY unstable :/
[13:22] Sour Wozniak: im telling trade on you
[13:23] Trade Flow: I am good with chickens
[13:23] Sour Wozniak: ok
[13:23] Fish Kungfu: hehe
[13:23] Sour Wozniak: im just kiddin
[13:23] Grunt Ultsch: It's gone
[13:24] Catharina Jacobus: hmmm the petition..
[13:24] Samira Kirax: so Grunt my Browser shows no creator text...so please might we bring that ro an end
[13:24] Catharina Jacobus: So Grunt says we should use the word author in stead of creator
[13:24] Grunt Ultsch: My browser does, sam
[13:24] Catharina Jacobus: I thought an author was a writer
[13:24] Fish Kungfu: hmmm me too
[13:25] Catharina Jacobus: and a creator is someone who builds/makes something new
[13:25] Trade Flow: 35 mins left in the meeting :-)
[13:25] Samira Kirax: ok...its the downline, the poing bout to ask Linden & so...
[13:25] Catharina Jacobus: Thanks Trade
[13:26] Sour Wozniak: im giving away free and open mercedes'
[13:26] AmP Schnyder: later etc
[13:26] Sour Wozniak: who wants one
[13:26] AmP Schnyder: hf everyone
[13:26] Samira Kirax: & we are about FSF & free "reading" after all...so it is an autor ;-)
[13:26] Trade Flow: I want one
[13:26] Samira Kirax: we must change those lines in the petition
[13:26] Ground whispers: Searching teleporters, please wait...
[13:26] Sour Wozniak: the only restricton is no mod
[13:26] Sour Wozniak: i cant change that
[13:26] Pyramid whispers: Searching teleporters, please wait...
[13:26] Fish Kungfu: I would like one please
[13:27] Catharina Jacobus: Sour, we are in a meeting... not in a mercedes
[13:27] Puffy Mizin: hi
[13:27] Grunt Ultsch: I think Stallman makes sense by asking us not to call an author a creator
[13:27] Catharina Jacobus: Hi Puf
[13:27] Trade Flow: hi puffy
[13:27] Sour Wozniak gave you Thurston C-Class.
[13:27] Fish Kungfu: howdy Puffy
[13:27] Catharina Jacobus: So an author is not just a writer?
[13:27] Grunt Ultsch: appearantly
[13:27] Puffy Mizin: whats this spot?
[13:28] Puffy Mizin: place
[13:28] Samira Kirax: thanx Sour..but little attention on meetin plz
[13:28] Sour Wozniak: ya for sure
[13:28] Catharina Jacobus: Hi Toga
[13:28] Trade Flow: hi toga
[13:28] Samira Kirax: oh hi Toge
[13:29] Catharina Jacobus: Can you tell me what a creator is?
[13:29] Sour Wozniak: hi toga
[13:29] Toga Yorkshire: Hi all, sorry I'm late, was distracted.
[13:29] Samira Kirax: Toga*
[13:29] Grunt Ultsch: There are several other subjects to discuss in the little time that is left
[13:29] Catharina Jacobus: Well glad you still came
[13:29] Catharina Jacobus: Hi Pedro
[13:30] pedro Perlman: hello!
[13:30] Sour Wozniak: hi ped
[13:30] pedro Perlman: i've heard much of you
[13:30] Trade Flow: hi ped
[13:30] Puffy Mizin: I need some help with my ubuntu: how to setup my ati 2600 video card? ati driver is installed, but sl graphiocs are miseerable(blinking image)
[13:30] Grunt Ultsch: So are we going to use the word 'author' like Stallman asked, or is there any reason to stick to the word 'creator'?
[13:30] Catharina Jacobus: Hi Faraway
[13:30] FarAwayNL Rock: Hi everyone
[13:30] Trade Flow: faraway is another coleague he is also in NL :-)
[13:31] FarAwayNL Rock: yes :)
[13:31] Fish Kungfu: Author is fine with me
[13:31] Grunt Ultsch: Hi Faraway :)
[13:31] Catharina Jacobus: Hi Zefar
[13:31] Fish Kungfu: Creator ties in to SL better though....flip a coin
[13:32] Catharina Jacobus: Yes I think so to and we are in SL
[13:32] FarAwayNL Rock: Hi Catharina and Grunt
[13:32] Toga Yorkshire: Is any one following the agenda?
[13:32] Catharina Jacobus: ok, we call it creators/authors
[13:32] Grunt Ultsch: no
[13:32] Catharina Jacobus: everybode happy?
[13:32] Samira Kirax: hi Faraway..I guess we take author
[13:32] Grunt Ultsch: of course not
[13:32] Trade Flow: prims can also be set to group
[13:33] Puffy Mizin: ubuntu is the os im using right now
[13:33] Catharina Jacobus: We are talking now half an hour about one stupid word
[13:33] FarAwayNL Rock: Hi Samira
[13:33] Grunt Ultsch: Well, let's postpone the decision, the petition has no hurry, other subjects have
[13:33] Fish Kungfu: hehe
[13:33] Trade Flow: ok
[13:33] Fish Kungfu: Next! :-)
[13:34] Catharina Jacobus: redicilous
[13:34] Toga Yorkshire: FSF
[13:34] Catharina Jacobus: FSF..
[13:34] Sour Wozniak: i am still on the fsf builder team right?
[13:34] Samira Kirax: I think we should stay in line with FSF...& they prefere author, no?
[13:35] Catharina Jacobus: Yes well Trade just set up his ideas on architecture at the wiki
[13:35] Sour Wozniak: i agree
[13:35] Trade Flow: http://4freedom.a.wiki-site.com/index.php/FSF_Architecture
[13:35] Catharina Jacobus: The FSF is about software
[13:35] Grunt Ultsch: The FSF doesn't believe in software creators, indeed sam :)
[13:35] Trade Flow: I have created a building as an example and placed it next to the FSF area
[13:36] Sour Wozniak: an author is a writer and you have to write software to author fits the title
[13:36] Catharina Jacobus: Have you ceated that or written it?
[13:36] Samira Kirax: nice...I saw
[13:36] Trade Flow: I have the building packaged with full perms if needed
[13:36] Catharina Jacobus: I have not seen that yet
[13:36] Sour Wozniak: didnt anyone read the point i just made
[13:36] Trade Flow: the building is juat an example that satisfies some of the requirements in my comments
[13:36] Catharina Jacobus: And also just noticed your Wiki comments
[13:37] Catharina Jacobus: But it looks good at first sight
[13:37] Trade Flow: so treat it as brainstorming and sandbox
[13:37] Trade Flow: the important thing is content
[13:37] Samira Kirax: yep
[13:37] Grunt Ultsch: I only noticed your ideas about the FSF building shortly before the meeting, and I was surprised how detailed they were
[13:38] Trade Flow: I am an architect :-)
[13:38] Catharina Jacobus: Yes, let us have a good look at it and discuss it next week. In the meantime I also will notify the FSF of it
[13:38] Catharina Jacobus: So they can add to it too
[13:38] Trade Flow: did not put the plumbing and social interaction plans yet :-)
[13:39] Grunt Ultsch: What if we prefer the FSF building in the FSF area?
[13:39] Puffy Mizin: bye all!
[13:39] Fish Kungfu: bye Puffy nice to meet you
[13:39] Trade Flow: bye puffy
[13:39] Samira Kirax: for that I've ideas as well as I wrote in my first statement about what to build
[13:39] Toga Yorkshire: Puffy come back after the meeting for Ubuntu help
[13:39] Grunt Ultsch: I mean in the 4freedom area :)
[13:39] Trade Flow: we have some builders here we need their input, suggest we sleep on it one week and discuss next meeting
[13:40] Trade Flow: grunt no problem, just say wherr and I will set the group ownership
[13:40] Catharina Jacobus: Yes meeting will last for 20 minutes Puffy..
[13:40] Grunt Ultsch: cool, trade
[13:40] Sour Wozniak: what does group ownership mean?
[13:40] Samira Kirax: I think from time the station was killed there's no problem anymore for prim on 4freedom, no?
[13:41] Trade Flow: I was thinking of putting it in place of you and cath and move you both either right or down
[13:41] Ground whispers: Searching teleporters, please wait...
[13:41] Grunt Ultsch: with a group ownership several ppl can build on 1 thing
[13:41] Pyramid whispers: Searching teleporters, please wait...
[13:41] Fish Kungfu: and you need to have that group tag active
[13:41] Fish Kungfu: I think that still is true
[13:41] Trade Flow: this is only temp until we get the next island
[13:42] Grunt Ultsch: I was referring to the next island, trade
[13:42] Catharina Jacobus: ok, any news on that Trade?
[13:42] Trade Flow: oh, i the next islan, you have free choice where you want to place anything (only 4freedom has that choice)
[13:43] Grunt Ultsch: ok, great!
[13:43] Catharina Jacobus: Not the FSF?
[13:43] Trade Flow: cath I am nearly ready for the island, just waiting for Linden to drop the price
[13:43] Samira Kirax: exact...so in that view Tradeds' architecture statement is perfect for new island & we have some time to experiment & looking for builders
[13:43] Trade Flow: also I am investigating the "non profit" discount
[13:43] Catharina Jacobus: Great
[13:43] Fish Kungfu: Price was sposed to go to US$1000 on 4/16...did it not?
[13:43] Trade Flow: I thionk it is half tier
[13:44] Catharina Jacobus: half tier is interesting
[13:44] Trade Flow: I cant see it on the land sales
[13:44] Toga Yorkshire: Any talk about donations or fees on the new island?
[13:44] Grunt Ultsch: We also need more renters. Anyone here wants to rent land in the 4freedom area on trade's new island?
[13:44] Fish Kungfu: Does 4Freedom get an Educational discount on islands?
[13:44] Trade Flow: we are not educational and not a charity
[13:45] Trade Flow: so I am asking them now regarding if we put it purely for open source projects
[13:45] Sour Wozniak: i feel that we are educational
[13:45] Fish Kungfu: okay...not legally a charitable org
[13:45] Catharina Jacobus: We could also ask the FSF and Canonical to sponsor an island maybe
[13:45] Sour Wozniak: we teach the values of "free and open"
[13:45] Fish Kungfu: yes Cath
[13:45] Trade Flow: problem with that is the 300$/month
[13:46] Fish Kungfu: yes pricey
[13:46] Grunt Ultsch: You have a point, sour
[13:46] Trade Flow: thats 3600$/year ammortised is == 12000$
[13:46] Grunt Ultsch: Yes, the 300 $ a month is the real problem
[13:46] Catharina Jacobus: Well if FSF and Ubuntu would buy one together they might get it for half tire
[13:46] Catharina Jacobus: And then we could try to rent it out
[13:46] Trade Flow: ubuntu is commercial company
[13:47] Sour Wozniak: brb im gonna go get a drink
[13:47] Catharina Jacobus: No Ubuntu is not
[13:47] Catharina Jacobus: Canonical is
[13:47] Trade Flow: ah i that case you are right, thats an option
[13:47] Trade Flow: it would be great if we can joing them plus others, thats where we differentiate from all the OSS projects on SL
[13:47] Samira Kirax: I think on that problem the answer by time will be an open sim, no?
[13:48] Sour Wozniak: back
[13:48] Fish Kungfu: wb Sour
[13:48] Sour Wozniak: ty fish
[13:48] FarAwayNL Rock: an opensim is free
[13:48] Trade Flow: open sim is alpha, and is not critical mass yet
[13:48] Catharina Jacobus: Well I had contact with Mark Shuttleworth and Jono Bacon from Ubuntu about the release party and they both liked it a lot that we do this here
[13:49] Fish Kungfu: An OpenSim has very low prims.
[13:49] Trade Flow: my new server hopefully has bandwith to allow us to run one region and connect to OSGrid
[13:49] Fish Kungfu: and you have to already own an island
[13:49] Sour Wozniak: when linden labs make there servers open source we can just get our own is land for free
[13:49] Fish Kungfu: I have OpenSim running already Sour :-)
[13:49] Trade Flow: they will not make the server code open source
[13:49] Samira Kirax: sonds great Trade :-)
[13:49] Sour Wozniak: they willl eventually
[13:50] Catharina Jacobus: The open sim is something to look out for but it is not an alternative yet
[13:50] Catharina Jacobus: So I think that we better stick to what we can do now
[13:50] Trade Flow: no, they will not compromise a 300M$ business
[13:50] Catharina Jacobus: We also got only ten minutes left
[13:50] Grunt Ultsch: Let's stop fantasizing about free server code and get back to reality
[13:50] Catharina Jacobus: So, shall I contact the FSF and ubuntu for sponsoring an island?
[13:50] Trade Flow: we always keep an eye on it, and if we architect the FSF stuff right here we can always have another presence
[13:50] Fish Kungfu: Yes, please do Cath
[13:51] Trade Flow: yes cath, why not
[13:51] Trade Flow: if you dont ask you dont get
[13:51] Fish Kungfu: I will get back with my Canonical contact too
[13:51] Catharina Jacobus: right Trade
[13:51] FarAwayNL Rock: you are right
[13:51] Fish Kungfu: keep squeaking the wheel
[13:51] Catharina Jacobus: ok, will do that
[13:51] Catharina Jacobus: maybe after the release party next week
[13:51] Toga Yorkshire: It would be nice if someone represented both FSF and Ubuntu at these meetings.
[13:51] Trade Flow: te more islands we get the better focus we get
[13:52] Catharina Jacobus: I will first ask the FSF this week if they like the idea and also if they would want to share with Ubuntu
[13:52] Toga Yorkshire: I think Cath is the closest to an Ubuntu rep ;-)
[13:53] Grunt Ultsch: Our hope is till an island without any proprietary objects, but we need a lot of renters
[13:53] Toga Yorkshire: or donations
[13:53] Trade Flow: I am planning for the new island to have no protected objects
[13:53] Fish Kungfu: depending on renters to clear tier is tricky
[13:54] Catharina Jacobus: I think people will want to rent from us if they are on an Ubuntu/FSF island
[13:54] Trade Flow: clear tier?
[13:54] Fish Kungfu: pay for island fee
[13:54] Catharina Jacobus: certainly if we can get it for half tyre
[13:54] Trade Flow: ah ok
[13:54] Grunt Ultsch: half tyre would be cool
[13:54] Catharina Jacobus: Maybe even Linden will donate an island to them
[13:55] Trade Flow: the problem is not geting it, its keeping it
[13:55] Catharina Jacobus: I think Linden would be happy to have them in here too
[13:55] Sour Wozniak: what is the name of the company that makes the linux kernal
[13:55] Sour Wozniak: ???
[13:55] Catharina Jacobus: there is no company for that
[13:55] Sour Wozniak: who does it then
[13:55] Grunt Ultsch: Torwalds inc
[13:55] Toga Yorkshire: You mean the one that employs Linus?
[13:56] Trade Flow: linuxlabs.org I think
[13:56] Fish Kungfu: Linus and his team out their blessing on it
[13:56] Fish Kungfu: put*
[13:56] Catharina Jacobus: hmmm any other urgent items?
[13:56] Catharina Jacobus: 4 minutes left
[13:56] Sour Wozniak: well mabee we can contact them and get them support it to
[13:56] Grunt Ultsch: no, Linus doesnt fet paid for doing the kernel, he has another paid job
[13:56] Trade Flow: linux is not owned by a company
[13:56] Grunt Ultsch: To me getting renters is urgent
[13:57] Catharina Jacobus: ok then we need to set up a renters board
[13:57] Fish Kungfu: The primary site for the kerneal is: http://www.kernel.org/
[13:57] Grunt Ultsch: I will do that
[13:57] Trade Flow: yes
[13:57] Catharina Jacobus: ok
[13:57] Toga Yorkshire: Hard to rent until you have a plce to show for rent.
[13:57] Sour Wozniak: well contact kernal.org
[13:57] Sour Wozniak: get there support
[13:57] Grunt Ultsch: I'll make a page on the wiki where ppl can enlist
[13:57] Samira Kirax: yep, so that for we need an "extraordinary" place so traffic will rise & like that "open source thinking" gets into "brain" of people, no?
[13:58] Samira Kirax: to keep the island I mean :-)
[13:58] Trade Flow: exactly samira
[13:58] Catharina Jacobus: I also had a discussion with the free4all group about the wiki of the freeandopenisland
[13:58] Trade Flow: thats why I was getting a new island, this island was supposed to be it, but then politics took over
[13:58] Catharina Jacobus: I have asked them to keep that wiki as a doorway to our seperate wiki´s
[13:59] Catharina Jacobus: Now they use it still as their wiki and we have our own place
[13:59] Catharina Jacobus: I think that is confusing
[13:59] Grunt Ultsch: It is, but it is no big deal I think
[13:59] Catharina Jacobus: But Hack was not very responsive to that idea
[13:59] Sour Wozniak: 1 minute
[13:59] Trade Flow: cath thats temporary until my new server will be up, then will use free4all.ama-gi.org
[13:59] Catharina Jacobus: Well they also bash us on their wiki
[13:59] Catharina Jacobus: our wiki..
[14:00] Catharina Jacobus: Or at least me...
[14:00] Grunt Ultsch: that's true
[14:00] Catharina Jacobus: I think it is not good for new visitors
[14:00] Trade Flow: I think we should have a brand new one
[14:00] Catharina Jacobus: So I have asked Hack to discuss that at least with their board
[14:00] Catharina Jacobus: That would be nice
[14:00] Trade Flow: yes he asked me
[14:01] Trade Flow: and my plan is as follows
[14:02] Trade Flow: I have registered long time ago the "ioso,org" which is (international open source organisations)
[14:02] Toga Yorkshire: What's that damn pounding sound?
[14:02] Catharina Jacobus: maybe Grunt´s pig
[14:02] Trade Flow: we can also use that domain name as "islands for open source organisations"
[14:03] Catharina Jacobus: hmmm the FSF does not much like the term open source
[14:03] Trade Flow: thats not where free4all will end up
[14:03] Trade Flow: FSF is GPL, right?
[14:03] Grunt Ultsch: yes
[14:04] Trade Flow: but OPen Source is a layer above GPL right?
[14:04] Catharina Jacobus: The advantage of the wiki for the freeandopenisland is that it is named on the blog of Shuttleworth and several other places
[14:04] Catharina Jacobus: I think it has a google pagerank of 5 or so too
[14:04] Grunt Ultsch: According to Stallman 'open source' misses the point to what the free software movement is about
[14:05] Trade Flow: of course it is, the "penis" will push it to the top :-)
[14:05] Catharina Jacobus: So that is why I would like it to stay there and just present our groups on the frontpage
[14:05] Catharina Jacobus: haha
[14:05] Catharina Jacobus: I can also ask Mark Shuttleworth to change the link to our new wiki of course to solve the problem in part
[14:05] Trade Flow: well, there is hstoric data on the wiki that all groups would like to have access to (not necessarily modify)
[14:06] Catharina Jacobus: I think that has to go
[14:06] Sour Wozniak: -6 minutes left
[14:06] Trade Flow: so if we make sure somewhere that historic data is available, then I dont see why free4all need the wiki
[14:06] Sour Wozniak: lol
[14:06] Catharina Jacobus: yes if that could go somewhere else
[14:06] Trade Flow: the freeadopenisland doimain should be owned by the group
[14:07] Catharina Jacobus: Yes sorry Sour
[14:07] Sour Wozniak: lol
[14:07] Sour Wozniak: :-)
[14:07] Trade Flow: yes cath, I am planning to move them somewhere else
[14:07] Catharina Jacobus: -ten minutes is the max
[14:07] Catharina Jacobus: ok great Trade
[14:07] Grunt Ultsch: I think free4all can write whatever they like on the free & open wiki as long as on the home page it is made clear that there are 2 different groups
[14:07] Catharina Jacobus: So anything else very urgent?
[14:07] Trade Flow: need to ask euan to hand over the domain ownership to you or whoever
[14:08] Catharina Jacobus: I do not agree on that Grunt; it is confusing for new visitors
[14:08] Samira Kirax: yes Trade I guess that poblem could be solved like that
[14:08] Samira Kirax: but still free & open in the logo of 4freedom group?
[14:08] Catharina Jacobus: and also not nice to be confronted with all the old disagreements that are history
[14:09] Trade Flow: yes samira, the focus is 4freedom and associated projects
[14:09] Sour Wozniak: cath?
[14:09] Sour Wozniak: can i have a 4freedom texture
[14:09] Catharina Jacobus: sure
[14:09] Sour Wozniak: ty
[14:09] Grunt Ultsch: Best would be if they would get a site of their own I think
[14:10] Trade Flow: not a problem cath, I will think of a solution to give free4all their history and keep f&OI only for 4freedom
[14:10] Trade Flow: es grunt I am giving them access on my servers as well
[14:11] Catharina Jacobus: We do not use that wiki anymore, so I think best would be if both groups presented themselves and their idea on the frontpage
[14:11] Grunt Ultsch: and a new domainname
[14:11] Catharina Jacobus: With a link to both new websites
[14:11] Trade Flow: see my talk: http://4freedom.a.wiki-site.com/index.php/User_talk:Hakim
[14:11] Catharina Jacobus: and that would be all
[14:11] Grunt Ultsch: I agree cath
[14:11] Trade Flow: grunt they have a new domain name
[14:11] Catharina Jacobus: ok so call for end of the formal part of the meeting..
[14:11] Trade Flow: ok
[14:12] Trade Flow: -----------------------------
[14:12] Fish Kungfu: ok
[14:12] Grunt Ultsch: Then why do they still use the free and open island wiki?
[14:12] Catharina Jacobus: Sorry that it was a bit messy and I did not make an agenda
[14:12] Catharina Jacobus: Still think it was a productive meeting.
[14:12] Catharina Jacobus: Can you log Grunt?
[14:12] Sour Wozniak: trade may i speak with you :-)
[14:12] Trade Flow: grunt its hstoric, ideally we should have its content and remove anything to do with the war :-)
[14:12] Grunt Ultsch: ok, I'll log
[14:13] Catharina Jacobus: haha
[14:13] Trade Flow: yes Sour
[14:13] Catharina Jacobus: Thanks Grunt
[14:13] Sour Wozniak: i have a real announcement this time
[14:13] Grunt Ultsch: sorry for the chicken, the cock and the pig
[14:13] Catharina Jacobus: hehe bit of a headache..
[14:13] Fish Kungfu: fire away Sour
[14:13] Sour Wozniak: ive opened a store
[14:14] Grunt Ultsch: Tommorow is the Ubuntu meeting, right?
[14:14] Sour Wozniak: everything is 10L or less and its all full perms
[14:14] Catharina Jacobus: Yes tomorrow
[14:14] Catharina Jacobus: Hope some people show up
[14:14] Grunt Ultsch: cool, sour :)
[14:14] Trade Flow: not free?
[14:14] Grunt Ultsch: I won't show up unfortunately
[14:14] Sour Wozniak: not free in price
[14:14] Catharina Jacobus: Hi Paco
[14:14] Fish Kungfu: Hello PAco
[14:14] Sour Wozniak: free as in freedom
[14:14] Catharina Jacobus: ow... why not Grunt?
[14:15] Fish Kungfu: not as in Free Beer ;-P
[14:15] Paco Yap: hi :)
[14:15] Fish Kungfu: Sour, is it in your Picks?
[14:15] Grunt Ultsch: I'll work tomorrow from 19.00 till 1.00 am
[14:15] Catharina Jacobus: hmmm and tuesday also I guess
[14:15] Grunt Ultsch: yes
[14:16] Samira Kirax: I guess Sour read about statment what is difference between freedom & price ;-) nice Sour where is the shop?
[14:16] Grunt Ultsch: But thanx to Suzan I already have a Niiice! Hardy Heron shirt!
[14:17] Catharina Jacobus: oh great
[14:17] Catharina Jacobus: can you put that somewhere up here
[14:17] Catharina Jacobus: Have a seat Paco
[14:17] Catharina Jacobus: if u like...
[14:17] Paco Yap: sure, why not...
[14:17] Grunt Ultsch: the shirt? Not until the release party!
[14:17] Catharina Jacobus: ok, you are right
[14:18] Catharina Jacobus: Can I have one before..
[14:18] Trade Flow: have to go now, show FarAway the island :-)
[14:18] Grunt Ultsch: only you, my dear
[14:18] Catharina Jacobus: Did she make a woman shirt too?
[14:18] Trade Flow: anything else before I go?
[14:18] Catharina Jacobus: Thanks Trade and cu soon
[14:18] Fish Kungfu: nice meeting you Trade
[14:18] Catharina Jacobus: yes the domain name..
[14:18] Catharina Jacobus: did you check?
[14:18] Grunt Ultsch: She didn't make a woman T shirt, but she did mention it
[14:19] Sour Wozniak: sry crash
[14:19] Trade Flow: anytime Fish, I am always here either 11 UK time eveniong or 6AM as Grunt caught me this morning
[14:19] Fish Kungfu: kk great
[14:19] Fish Kungfu: wb crash
[14:19] Catharina Jacobus: http://84.244.151.71/~freedom4/
[14:19] Sour Wozniak: ok everyone, im going to my shop now
[14:19] Sour Wozniak: see you later
[14:19] Catharina Jacobus: that is where we are building the new site now
[14:19] Grunt Ultsch: It was busy on SL at 5 am this morning
[14:19] Fish Kungfu: Sour, please put it in your Picks too :-)
[14:19] Catharina Jacobus: cu Sour and thanks
[14:19] Sour Wozniak: =)
[14:20] Grunt Ultsch: sam was there too
[14:20] Catharina Jacobus: Sam?
[14:20] Grunt Ultsch: yes
[14:21] Trade Flow: cath http://4-freedom.org/~freedom4
[14:21] Catharina Jacobus: Do I know him or her?
[14:21] Grunt Ultsch: sure you do!
[14:21] Trade Flow: and http://4freedom.eu/~freedom4
[14:21] Catharina Jacobus: What is that? That does not look good
[14:21] Grunt Ultsch: cool, trade!
[14:22] Grunt Ultsch: Hurray for our new domain!
[14:22] Catharina Jacobus: ok, now it looks better
[14:22] Trade Flow: all u need is to tell who sets up the server to recognize the domain name and you are set
[14:22] Samira Kirax: great
[14:22] Grunt Ultsch: what about 4freedom.org?
[14:22] Fish Kungfu: taken it appears
[14:22] Samira Kirax: so thank you Trade :-)
[14:22] Trade Flow: its taken by somebody else
[14:23] Grunt Ultsch: ok :(
[14:23] Grunt Ultsch: Let's do bloody murder on him
[14:23] Fish Kungfu: we can whois them and stalk them ;-P
[14:23] Fish Kungfu: gah jk
[14:24] Trade Flow: cath your BF need to set up: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/vhosts/name-based.html
[14:25] Paco Yap: gotta run
[14:25] Paco Yap: bye
[14:25] Fish Kungfu: omg Grunt ...your neo1973 is in the grass over there
[14:26] Trade Flow: going to my house, see you all later
[14:26] Samira Kirax: bye Trade
[14:26] Fish Kungfu: bye TYrade
[14:26] Catharina Jacobus: Will have a look
[14:26] Grunt Ultsch: my what??
[14:26] Catharina Jacobus: Bye Paco and Trade
[14:26] Fish Kungfu: your OpenMoko phone
[14:27] Grunt Ultsch: yes, I put it there
[14:27] Fish Kungfu: hehe kk
[14:27] Grunt Ultsch: Please don't step on it
[14:27] Fish Kungfu: Ill be careful...cant buy those anymore
[14:27] Grunt Ultsch: This one is free
[14:27] Samira Kirax: so thanx Cath, guess meeting s over ;-)
[14:28] Fish Kungfu: in rl
[14:28] FarAwayNL Rock: thank you everyone
[14:28] Grunt Ultsch: yeah, thanx cath
[14:28] Catharina Jacobus: Yes thank you too Samira
[14:28] Fish Kungfu: thank you Cath
[14:28] FarAwayNL Rock: it was interisting
[14:28] Fish Kungfu: nice meeting you all
[14:28] FarAwayNL Rock: see you later bye
[14:28] Catharina Jacobus: and everyone of course for showing up and their contributions
[14:28] Catharina Jacobus: Cu Far
[14:28] Grunt Ultsch: and for removing their chicken
[14:29] Catharina Jacobus: haha
[14:29] Fish Kungfu: sudo apt-get remove chicken